Bernie Sanders, the famously anti-billionaire senator of Vermont, and Bill Gates, the world’s seventh wealthiest person with an estimated net worth of $138.5 billion, make an unlikely pairing—especially when it comes to debating income inequality. Despite their differences, the duo sat down together to discuss wealth and taxation for the latest episode of Gates’ new Netflix series What’s Next? The Future with Bill Gates.
“Several of my friends raised an eyebrow when I told them I was going to meet with him,” said Gates in a blog post on Wednesday (Sept. 18) discussing his meeting with Sanders and the show, which aired the same day. “After all, Sen. Sanders is the first U.S. Senator in history to go on record saying that billionaires shouldn’t exist,” he added.
Sanders maintained this stance during their discussion, calling the existence of ultra-wealthy individuals “unacceptable” and “obscene.” Gates, meanwhile, suggested that billionaires should voluntarily donate their wealth but disagreed on outlawing them altogether. “But again, I’m biased,” conceded the Microsoft (MSFT) co-founder. Gates, who has given away some $77.6 billion via the Gates Foundation, has long been a champion for billionaire philanthropy and in 2010 helped create the Giving Pledge, a campaign that urges the ultra-wealthy to donate the majority of their wealth.
How much should the ultra-rich be taxed?
Despite their different stances on banning billionaires, both Gates and Sanders are advocates for higher taxes on the rich. “I’m amazed that the rich aren’t taxed substantially more than they are,” said Gates during the episode. “If you raise taxes a fair bit, there should be enough to somewhat raise the social safety net, which is not as well-funded as I would make it,” he added. The centibillionaire said his ideal tax system would leave the wealthy with a third of their current fortunes, which would give Gates around $46 billion given his current fortune. Sanders, meanwhile, said he “would go a lot further.”
Gates’ comments echo statements he made earlier this month in an interview with The Independent, where he voiced his desire for more progressive tax policies. “If I designed the tax system, I would be tens of billions of dollars poorer than I am,” he told the outlet.
In a 2019 blog post, Gates suggested increasing taxes on large investments by the wealthy and urged the U.S. government to raise the capital gains tax to equal taxes on labor. While those relying on salary and hourly work are taxed at a maximum of 37 percent, “the wealthiest generally only get a tiny percentage of their income from a salary; most of it comes from profits on investments, such as stock or real estate, taxed at 20 percent if they’re held for more than a year,” he said.
During his discussion with Gates, Sanders pointed to a similar idea proposed by Warren Buffett in 2011 when he criticized the fact that he was taxed less than his employees. “That is not what the American people want to see,” said the senator.
Earlier this year, JPMorgan Chase (JPM)’s Jamie Dimon—estimated to be worth $2.3 billion—said that higher taxes on the rich would help the nation bring its debt down while increasing economic spending and growth. “You would maybe just raise taxes a bit, like the Warren Buffett-type of rule,” Dimon told PBS, referring to a tax rule borne out of Buffett’s comments that dictates no households earning more than $1 million annually should pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than middle-class families.
