The “Project Runway” judges on Heidi Klum’s return and ‘spicy’ season 21

“I need a fan!”

It’s not an uncommon request on a cover shoot, especially one taking place on a sunny June afternoon in Hollywood. But today the air conditioner is blasting — though not enough to blow Law Roach‘s hair as a photographer snaps shots of the celebrity stylist.

Moments later, manufactured wind grants his wish. But it’s not from a fan, it’s from a full-on leaf blower.

“We’re hair girls, all three of us,” the stylist for Zendaya, Céline Dion, Anya Taylor-Joy, and more says later while watching playback of his Entertainment Weekly motion cover with fellow Project Runway season 21 judges Heidi Klum and Nina Garcia, who respond with laughs.

As the shoot continues, Nina channels her day job as editor-in-chief of Elle, meticulously dissecting her choreography for the match-cut cover.

Meanwhile, Heidi is the consummate supermodel.

“Let’s just do it, kids!” she offers encouragingly, moments later dancing and snapping along to Outkast‘s “Roses” (“S— don’t staaaaank”) and waving her arms to Jennifer Lopez‘s “I’m Real” remix featuring Ja Rule (“Can’t go on without yooou”).

But as much as hair and choreography and music have their focus, nothing concerns the trio more than what they’re wearing. Nina debates every accessory, while Heidi suffers from choice overload: “I have gorgeous things, but which should I wear?!” she asks earnestly.

She lands on Paris Texas shoes, an Intimissimi slip, and a Christian Siriano gown for the cover. Nina, in Intimissimi and Mugler. And Law, in Skims and vintage Italian.

“Those shoes!” Heidi exclaims to Law as he makes his grand entrance in vintage boots.

It’s been almost two years since the season 20 finale of the reality design competition, and a lot has changed: After three seasons back on original network Bravo (seasons 6 to 16 aired on Lifetime), the workroom drama will now play out starting July 31 on Freeform, and stream shortly after broadcast on Disney+ and Hulu.

As the only mainstay of all 21 seasons, Nina is always in fashion. But out are her most recent fellow judges, designer Brandon Maxwell and journalist Elaine Welteroth. And in are Law — who guest judged last season — and Heidi, who returns as host after leaving the show in 2017. (Model Karli Kloss stepped in for season 17, while the judges split hosting duties the past three installments.)

Taking a break from the cover shoot, the season 21 judges grab a few directors chairs and sit in a quiet corner of the studio. Throughout their conversation with EW, it’s clear they developed a close bond and shorthand while filming for five-and-a-half weeks this spring.

Ahead of Project Runway‘s premiere on Thursday, the trio reflect on the show’s 2004 launch, how Heidi feels returning for her first season without designer mentor Tim Gunn, and what we can expect from the dramatic (mostly) new crop of designers….

That is, if they can ever turn off their fashion radars. Mid interview, Law interrupts Nina to ask “Who’s this you’re wearing?” (In case you’re wondering, it was Isabel Marant.)

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: How does it feel to be celebrating 21 seasons?

HEIDI KLUM: Nina and I were just saying, when grown-ups come to us and they’re like, “Oh my God, I grew up watching!” and they’re, like, a grown person…

NINA GARCIA: Yes, that’s so scary for me.

HEIDI: We started in 2004. To put it into context, we were still using Blackberries.

NINA: Can you imagine?

HEIDI: I fought giving up my Blackberry, I missed the typing.

LAW ROACH: I remember when the show debuted. I had moved from Chicago to New York to start chasing this dream. I had no idea what I was doing, took all my savings and moved. And Project Runway taught me the language of design, gave me a peek into this industry. When the shows were at Bryant Park, that was such a big deal. My friends and I used to go and sneak into the shows. We did a lot of things to get into those shows…. [Laughs] But Project Runway gave us this vision of what’s possible. It was very aspirational.

Reality TV was still in its infancy when the show started. Did you have any hesitations at the time?

HEIDI: Well, I helped create the show, so I went to all the pitch meetings. We had a bunch of producers come, but I was kind of the one doing all the talking with all the heads of the networks. And they were always saying in the meetings, “Why would we want to watch people sew clothes?” And I’m like, “Well, it’s kind of like a race. It’s a competition. We give them only a certain amount of time and money, and then we put on a fashion show. And yes, you watch the process of how it is done….” And a lot of people were like, “Yeah, that doesn’t sound interesting to us.”

NINA: Oh, my immediate reaction was “Absolutely no. No.” At that time, the fashion industry was really very closed off, almost like everything was a big secret. It was so exclusive and exclusionary in a way that made me think, This is never going to work.

HEIDI: But then Bravo said, “All right, we’re going to do this.” Suddenly, we were in production, and we didn’t have a template. We were learning as we went along. We did not think of a role for Tim Gunn [at first], to be honest with you. It was always going to be Nina, it was Michael [Kors], and then we were going to have a guest judge. Tim didn’t really have a role. It just kind of happened that we found this head of Parsons School of Design, and he was this oddball character that we fell in love with, and we were like, “He needs a part.” He just had a way of speaking that we hadn’t heard before.

LAW: [Imitating Tim Gunn] Designers…. That voice is iconic, still to this day.

HEIDI: Yes, iconic! And he said things that then also became iconic. All of a sudden, “Make it work” became a thing. No one wrote that for him. No one wrote for me the auf Wiedersehen line. I added it because I was like, “I’m German, people can hear I’m German, and we say in Germany, auf Wiedersehen.” A lot of things just happened as we went along.

Nina, what turned your “absolutely no” into a yes?

NINA: I had met Heidi because she was on multiple Elle covers, so that made me feel a little bit better. And then I was also very close to Michael, so that gave me a level of comfort. But my initial reaction was, “No, I will not do it…”

HEIDI: Because commercial work was not cool at the time…

NINA: At all. But it was the perfect storm. Just a year before, H&M had launched their first store in America, and they had done a huge event in Central Park. There was this moment where it was all kind of changing. It was H&M, Target was the big buzz. As an editor, I sensed that moment, and that’s what made me comfortable saying, “Okay, let’s do it.”

HEIDI: It was a risk.

NINA: We filmed it, and as it was going out into the world I thought, I’ll never get invited to another show in my life. That’s it. My career is ruined. But the opposite happened. Suddenly, [fashion photographer] Steven Meisel was hosting little parties to watch Project Runway because he’s obsessed. Bee Shaffer, Anna [Wintour]‘s daughter, met me at an event and was like, “You’re Nina Garcia!” Fashion people were obsessed. I won’t say there weren’t haters. Fashion people also don’t like to break with what they know, true and tried. But by that time, the show was a complete hit. There is really a talent and a creative effort that comes through in this show. It’s not just eating bugs. You’re taking fabric and making it into art. I am so proud to be part of it. I remember reading that the student interest for Parsons and [the Fashion Institute of Technology] grew exponentially after the show aired, because there were so many kids that never realized that this was a possibility, and that this is what it took. They were suddenly interested.

Are there moments or episodes that have stayed with you more than others?

NINA: I find it so interesting that the show, much like fashion, is really a reflection of our culture. It’s an artistic reflection of what is happening in society — and the show has never shied away from that. It has really been very bold and brave in having uncomfortable conversations. For example, [when designer Mondo Guerra disclosed his HIV-positive status in season 8]. When I asked him that question about the [plus-sign symbols on his model’s] pants, and he came out with that response….

HEIDI: I remember it like it was yesterday.

NINA: That was in 2010, which doesn’t seem that long ago, but there was a real stigma still at the time, so it was a real seminal moment. Then in 2013, when [season 12 designer Bradon McDonald] asked for his partner’s hand in marriage…. Gay marriage was not [nationally] legal yet, but the show never backed down from those conversations. In 2017, we started having, finally, models of all sizes.

HEIDI: And the designers, they were pissed. “I don’t want to design for this curvy girl!” And we were like, “This is your job! This is what you’re supposed to be doing.”

NINA: And then transgender model Mimi [Tao], she became our most adored model. Again, the show has embraced these conversations that helped move the culture forward.

LAW: It has always been at the cusp of cultural change, right? One of my fondest memories is watching Sessilee Lopez walk [Christian Siriano’s finale runway show on 2008’s season 4]. She was unknown, and then she became one of the most incredible Black supermodels. I remember her being on the cover of Italian Vogue, and being so proud that I remembered her from Project Runway. She was a huge model in the early 2000s because of the show.

HEIDI: I also love that — in the very beginning, more so than now — we had so many contestants that all had different jobs. They were just sewing in their basements. We had a mom with like, remember, seven kids? There were people who worked at, like, a bank. They were doing something that had nothing to do with fashion, but they had this gift of also sewing, and this passion. All of a sudden, they were allowed to show this to the world — that there’s more to us all than just one lane, which I always loved. I think it also made other people dream at home, saying. “I could possibly also do other things.”

LAW: You have to be able to see yourself in someone else sometimes to find the courage to be able to do it. After being in New York, I went back to Chicago and was just sitting at home watching and still dreaming of being in the industry. They were in the industry: Nina was an editor and Heidi was a supermodel, but I was still at home kind of watching and waiting for my time.

Heidi, what made you decide it was time to come back to Project Runway after four seasons away?

HEIDI: Well, you know, you never turn your back on your child. This was always my first television baby. I’ve done many different TV shows afterwards: I just celebrated 20 years of Germany’s Next Top Model. And we didn’t have a German drag show, so I wanted to do a drag show, which was called Queen of Drag. Germany, at the time [in 2019,] wasn’t fully ready for this drag show, so unfortunately after one season that kind of stopped. I did [America’s Got Talent] for 12 years, or something like that. So you know, it was, Why not do the show again that I helped start, that I love? It was like coming home.

NINA: I was thrilled. I’m the biggest Heidi fan. Her energy is really unparalleled. And it’s not only her energy, but her work ethic, her spirit, her positivity. This season we have, to be honest with you, such good energy. It’s such a good show, and there’s so many laughs. It’s so great — and Heidi has a lot to do with that, because she brings that energy into it.

HEIDI: And this show also can never get boring, because the same way fashion always evolves, the show always evolves. It’s always new people, and every person has their own unique story, their own unique way of designing. There’s never anything boring about that because this is real. They’re not actors. We don’t give them lines. They’re real people doing real great stuff, which will always be amazing to watch. I mean, my eyes fall out of my head when I see the first model walk down. They come around the corner and you’re like, “You had one day to do this?! This looks like a $5,000 gown that you made in one day, with $200.” It’s fabulous.

LAW: And I never believed that. Watching the show over the years, they always say, “You get a day.” I never actually believed it.

HEIDI: But it’s true!

LAW: It is true! I can testify and vouch that they get one day, and it is incredible. It is absolutely incredible the things they turn out. I mean, I am a stickler for things like finishings, and sometimes you don’t get the greatest finishes. But when you do, it’s just like, How did they do that? How did they do a full bone corset gown, and with perfectly finished hems and edges and all these things in a day?! It is quite incredible.

How would you describe your dynamic as a judging panel?

LAW: I love that I got to come back when Heidi’s here, because she does seem like the captain of the ship. Sometimes the deliberation, she pulls us together — and I appreciate that leadership. She doesn’t act like, “Oh, this is my show, I created this show 20 years ago, you gotta listen to what I’m saying…” But you do feel that sense of authority and experience that makes me feel really good and comfortable. And also feel welcomed, because I am a bit spicy. So to be welcomed and no one to come to me and be like, “Oh, that was a little harsh” or “Maybe you could be a little nicer…” They’re just letting me be me. The energy and the synergy just feels so right. Even when there is a disagreement, we disagree, we move on, and sometimes we are able to change each other’s perspective about things, which I think is also really, really great.

HEIDI: You feel someone’s point of view and you’re like, “Oh, I didn’t see it like that.”

LAW: It also is important for the designers to see that, because fashion is supposed to be polarizing. If everybody loves it, then something’s not right. It’s supposed to evoke different emotions and different feelings.

NINA: I’ll add that Heidi does bring this captain leadership, but also an incredible amount of fairness. There’s no gray area. It’s black or it’s white. There’s no, like, “Oh, but my dog ate the homework.” It is what it is, and that is what a show needs to be.

HEIDI: What I love is when everyone is invested in what we’re doing. I have so many guests on various other shows, and sometimes they come and they’re not really paying attention. They couldn’t care less. But here, everyone on the show cares for every single person.

And you have some incredible guest judges for season 21…

HEIDI: Let’s start with Tyra [Banks]. She did the avant-garde challenge, and, I mean, she comes in wearing this incredible avant-garde…

LAW: You know, that was actually another full-circle moment for me because Tyra gave me my first chance [to be a judge in 2016] on America’s Next Top Model.

NINA: I didn’t know that! That’s so great. And she did so many Elle covers.

HEIDI: And she brought Top Model onto the market, so I do her show in Germany. She’s fabulous. I mean, from being, like, one of the biggest supermodels running on every damn show in Paris and whatnot, right? She’s done it all.

LAW: Yeah, she was [a Victoria’s Secret] Angel with you!

HEIDI: She’s such a role model. It was fun to have her there. We’ve done so many jobs together. Then Sofia Vergara… It’s amazing to get these world-known superstars onto the show, because when you have the designers sitting there and their hearts stop for a second. During the runway, they were saying, “I can’t believe Sofia Vergara is looking at what I created.” They can’t believe that she’s actually going to walk some red carpet wearing [the winning] outfit.

And Michael Kors is back.

HEIDI: He’s the OG! He is our American designer of all time, you know? Everyone knows Michael Kors. He has this super big business, and he was always so real [as a judge.] Whatever was in his head, when he described it, we saw it. He would be like, “This looks like a scratch tree for a cat…”

NINA: “A box of Kleenex!” There are so many Michaelisms.

HEIDI: He always has the best stories too — about everybody.

LAW: We also had Sara Foster, who has a really popular brand out now, Favorite Daughter, and she was really great. She did two episodes, and she was actually my favorite because she could take a punch. She could also give one back! I don’t just single out the contestants, I want a little scrabble with the judges too. [Flips hair] She was really fun with that. But I also think it’s really good for the designers to see someone who has a business that is sustainable and fashionable and popular at the moment — to show the possibilities that they can do it too.

Are there people you’re dying to have guest judge but haven’t been able to yet?

LAW: I think we all have a list. I would love to see some of my clients come on. My “Mother,” Naomi Campbell, I would love to have her come.

HEIDI: I mean, I called Tyra, she said yes. I called Viagra, she said yes…

LAW: [Laughs] I love it, she calls her Sofia Viagra, just so you know.

HEIDI: …I called Michael Kors, he said yes. I literally called them all up and I said “You have to come and do an episode.”

And Heidi, this is your first season working with Christian Siriano instead of Tim Gunn as the designers’ mentor. What did you think of him in this role?

HEIDI: He is just very good at what he does. He’s also very fair. He lets them be who they are, but he points things out when he sees things. I think we all do that. He gives his input, and then it’s up to them. Do they listen to it, or do they not? And he, out of everyone, knows how it is to be sitting in that boat. He’s been in it. He won it, and he is one of our most successful winners.

NINA: And that’s really important, that he has a real business — because he knows what it takes to make it. He’s very generous as a mentor, following up after the show is done. He really is very helpful in guiding them, in making introductions. He’s a wonderful mentor.

LAW: I love that he never got caught up in… He never became “the Fashion Person.” You know what I mean? Because a lot of designers do.

NINA: Yes, they do indeed. But he is who he is.

LAW: I have so many good Christian stories. I literally call Christian at 2 o’clock in the morning. He’s in Europe right now, but if I called him right now, he’d pick up. He’ll be like, “Girl, what do you want? What do you need?” I’m like, “I need a dress.” “When do you need it?” “Tomorrow, the day after tomorrow” — he’ll always make it happen.

NINA: Oh, he also does these most gorgeous paintings. He does everything. He’s so talented.

And what did you think of this season’s designers?

HEIDI: Twins, we have! [Jesus Estrada, who also competed on season 7 in 2010, and his brother Antonio.]

NINA: Those twins have a big personality.

HEIDI: I’ve known the twins for a very long time. Well, I’ve only ever known them in costume because they’ve come to my Halloween party. Even though I’ve never actually invited them, they will all of a sudden be next to me in the VIP section. They will get through anything everywhere… So when we started, I had to say, “How do I judge them? Because I sort of know them.” But, obviously, I will always treat them like everyone else…

LAW: That [Halloween party story] should have come up on the show. That’s f—ing incredible.

HEIDI: Yeah, they would be all of a sudden next to me in the roped-off VIP section and I’m like What?

LAW: I’ve never been invited to that party…

HEIDI: Well, this year, you better come.

NINA: You better come in costume.

HEIDI: And it better be good! [Laughs] But yeah, they’ve always stood out. They would sew the most incredible costumes, so they were always let in by the doorman. They were so fabulous, you couldn’t turn them away.

NINA: But imagine that: competing twins. They’re competing against each other, so that is drama unto itself.

LAW: And competing with me… Those twins were something.

They’re also competing against Ethan Mundt, who RuPaul’s Drag Race season 13 viewers will know as Utica.

NINA: I was impressed by Ethan. He knows fashion. He knows the references very well, so there’s a sophistication to some of his looks. But most importantly, you need the drama on the runway — and he, unsurprisingly, knew how to deliver that in spades.

LAW: I love that he brought something that was different, very dark, which we didn’t see a lot of on the runway. And he brought both sides: He brought this kind of dynamic of Ethan and then Utica, and what those two personas look like fused together. That was really interesting to watch.

HEIDI: Incredible looks.

LAW: Yes, and just such a sweet boy.

You also welcome back designer Caycee Black, who was the first eliminated on season 19 in 2021. What made you want to invite someone back who went home so early?

HEIDI: It’s heartbreaking when you see their interviews. When we’re filming, we only see them when we see them. When it’s all cut together with their interviews, you really see how they take it so hard. That was hard for her, the first time she was there.

NINA: I could see it in her interview and in her tears [while filming season 21]. I mean, that’s…

LAW: Tough.

HEIDI: It’s tough. You don’t think about it so much when you’re in the moment, because you’re like, “Well, this was our least favorite one. They have to go.” But then what that does to that person, that does kind of stick with me a little bit afterwards.

LAW: I think that also speaks to the fairness of Heidi that Nina mentioned.

HEIDI: Not that it changes any of my decisions.

LAW: Oh, that’s not what I’m saying. Nobody tells us who we can and who we can’t vote for. But just Heidi being so sensitive about it, and really caring…. Because me, I’m just like: “It wasn’t good.”

NINA: There’s a compassion and empathy…

LAW: Yeah, all things I don’t possess, that’s what I’m trying to say. [Laughs]

NINA: I do worry sometimes, because I don’t want to crush anybody’s dreams. But the show is also very specific: You need a special skill set of being quick, and knowing how to sew. Some fantastic designers don’t really have all that in real life.

LAW: My thing is, this show has been on for 21 seasons. At some point, these contestants have watched this show and been fans of this show. So you already have a blueprint of what it’s going to be like. Proper preparation prevents poor performance. There’s certain things that you should just be able to do from practice… So I have a little bit less empathy and less compassion than my judges. [Flips hair]

NINA: In real life, if you have a bad show, that is bad for business and you’re probably going to be fired, or God only knows, right? So it is real life.

HEIDI: On Top Model, sometimes I have girls that are like, “Oh my God, I just bought my first pair of heels, but I really want to be a model!” It’s like, “You are so far behind everyone else!”

LAW: I’ve been walking in heels since I was 5.

HEIDI: So then I’m like, “I’m going to give you maybe a week. But if you are not catching up, you’re going to be leaving soon.” You don’t even know how to walk in a heel? Like, what the heck?

On the other end of the spectrum, you’re helping make people’s dreams come true.

LAW: I can’t wait to be able to use some of these designers’ clothes in my work. Bishme [Cromartie] won season 20, and I reached out to him to do a custom for one of my clients. It didn’t quite work out, but just being able to go back into the Project Runway portfolio and to have the opportunity to connect with these designers so closely — and support them…. That is really important to me now.

So sounds like you have a liiiittle bit of that compassion and empathy…

LAW: [Flips hair]

———————–

Directed by Kristen Harding + Alison Wild

Photography by Max Montgomery

Motion – DP: Chevy Tyler; 1st AC: Mikyla Jonck, Lauren Peele; Steadicam Op: Zachary Stanke; Gaffer: Bailey Clark; Best Electric: Noah Shettel; SLT: Juliet Lambert; Key Grip: David Gonzalez; Best Grip: Charles Lenz; Swing: Anthony Duran

Production Design – Production Designer: Isaac Aaron; Seamstress/Prop Fabricator: Charlotte CaHill; Lead Man/Fabricator: Matt Banister; Scenic: Megan Genova; Runners: Paris Peterson, Noah Dains

Photo – 1st Assistant: Thomas Patton; 2nd Assistant: Daniel Everett Patrick; Digital Tech: James Weir

Post-Production – Color Correction: Nate Seymour/TRAFIK; VFX: Viktor Metelev; Design: Alex Sandoval

Heidi Klum – Styling: Rob & Mariel/Forward Artists; Styling Assistant: Jill Petry; Hair: Ray Christopher/The Wall Group; Makeup: Leah Darcy/Infinity Creative Agency; (Cover) Slip: Intimissimi; Shoes: Paris Texas; Gown: Christian Siriano; (Header) Dress: David Koma; Shoes: Casadei 

Law Roach – Hair: Tai Simon/The Only Agency; Makeup: Amber Amos/The Only Agency; (Cover) Sweats: Skims; Suit: Vintage Italian; (Header) Suit: Vintage Italian 

Nina Garcia – Styling: Jan-Michael Quammie/The Wall Group; Hair: Zachary Morad; Makeup: Amy Hollier; (Cover) Top: Intimissimi; Pants: Talent’s Own; Jacket: Mugler; (Photos) Dress: Isabel Marant (Header) Jacket: Alexander McQueen; Pants: Talent’s Own

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